From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 18:28:31 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 05:24:03 -0400
Subject: Re: New Roswell Proof: Mogul Trajectory Hoax -


 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 01:53:39 EDT
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: New on Roswell Proof: Mogul Trajectory Hoax -

 >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: New on Roswell Proof: Mogul Trajectory Hoax
 >>Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 10:43:43 -0700


 >>Based on debates I had with Bruce Hutchinson last June, on
 >>UpDates, concerning Charles Moore's so-called 'calculation' of
 >>how his lost Mogul Flight #4 ended up at the Foster Ranch, I
 >>have added a new section to my Roswell Proof Web site critically
 >>analyzing Moore's model.

 >Bravo on an excellent web site. Gee, the usually loud, blow hard
 >skeptics are strangely silent..... :)

 >Bottom line is to have Roswell/mogel in perspective you have at
 >the very, very best a theory that is 17 miles short and from
 >what you have uncovered a theory that was bogus and hodge podged
 >together to come up with a set of facts.

 >My guess is your information will get little or now attention in
 >the Skeptical Inquirer, nor will the usually host of mogelites
 >and supporters be offering anything. Somehow that is not a big
 >surprise...

Robert,

This does raise an interesting dilemma for skeptics who are used
to branding "pro-Roswell" witnesses as hoaxers and using this as
"evidence" against a saucer crash. Furthermore absolutely
_everything_ any of these witnesses says is considered to have
no credibility.

So, e.g., since Glenn Dennis' "Nurse X" doesn't seem to exist
(at least, not by the name he gave), this has been used to
completely discredit Dennis and all parts of his story, such as
receiving calls from the base about caskets and body
preservation techniques and getting threatened at the base
hospital.

By the same logic, since Charles Moore is now a proven hoaxer,
does this discredit the Mogul hypothesis? How about other of
Moore's statements about Project Mogul? Was there really a
"flower tape," e.g.? Did Roswell base really know nothing about
Mogul? (Moore seems to have altered a graphic in his book and
lied in a recent e-mail to advance this position as well.
Ironically Moore's book is called "UFO Crash at Roswell -- The
Genesis of a Modern Myth." Moore seems to enjoy creating a few
myths of his own.)

Because Moore is obviously willing to lie, will he now be
permanently banned from all UFO discussions, unfit to share the
stage with?

Moore isn't the only Mogul person who seems guilty of cooking up
a tale to discredit the flying disk story. See my summary of the
Duffy/Trakowski story, which might be another hoax by two of the
former Mogul project directors.

http://roswellproof.homestead.com/RoswellSummary11.html

In this little fable, used as one of the cornerstones of the
AF's 1995 report debunking Roswell, Col. Trakowski claimed Col.
Duffy, his predecessor at Mogul, called him on the phone a few
days later. Supposedly someone had flown the debris from New
Mexico to Wright Field, brought it to Duffy's home, and Duffy
absolutely identified it as being from Project Mogul. After
relating this to Trakowski, Trakowski claimed they both had a
good laugh over the foolishness of the Roswell people for not
being able to ID a radar reflector.

There are 3 big problems with this story. One is a recently
found telegram from a news reporter that indicates Duffy was in
New Jersey near Mogul headquarters, not at Wright Field. How
could he ID debris at his home if he wasn't there?

Second, in two letters to Robert Todd just before he died, Duffy
gave a very ambiguous description of what he supposedly saw,
even saying he didn't know exactly what it was, very odd
statements considering that Duffy was one of the inventors of
the very radar target that Gen. Ramey displayed as the crash
object. And third, with Project Mogul being very fastidious
about keeping records about their flights, Trakowski seemed to
make no note of the ultimate fate of one of their balloons.

(I could also add that a year and half later, Project Grudge
requested that Trakowski correlate their balloon flights with
reported UFO reports in the area. Trakowski's response is that
they didn't correlate at all, being in the wrong places at the
wrong times. Somehow Trakowski forgot about the nationally
reported case of the so-called crashed flying saucer being
confused with one of their balloons.)

Duffy's story appears to be confabulated. Maybe he was asked to
plant the story inside Mogul circles to go along with Ramey's
weather balloon cover story. Who knows? Whatever, Duffy probably
never saw a thing.

Now back to Moore. What do I think of Moore? I think he is
obviously also willing to cook his story when it suits his
purposes, namely to advance his pet theory that his lost Mogul
explains Roswell. I think he should be condemned in the
strongest terms for his hoax, which just serves to further muddy
the waters.

On the other hand, this really isn't strong evidence against a
Mogul explanation, just that one person went to extremes to
advance it. Similarly, someone caught lying regarding a saucer
crash does not automatically discredit that hypothesis either or
other witnesses who might be telling similar stories.

Futhermore, I don't think Moore should be banned to Siberia and
everything he has said disregarded. I feel the same way about
questionable witnesses on the other side who may have lied about
some things, but who may still have valuable direct knowledge
about what happened, people such as a Glenn Dennis or Frank
Kaufmann.

I'm trying to be fair about this. Some witnesses may be saints,
some may be sinners, but most may fall somewhere in the gray
zone inbetween. I try to look at each person's statements in the
overall context of what is known about the case.

Unfortunately, the skeptics are guilty of a double standard when
it comes to witnesses. If someone like Marcel didn't dot his i's
and cross his t's 100% correctly, he is branded as a
pathological liar. Never mind if all major parts of his Roswell
story are corroborated by others, such as Gen. Exon and Gen.
Dubose. Or the fact that Gen. Ramey was praising him a year
later and protesting his transfer.

But I would guess Moore's various "indiscretions" will probably
be ignored with a chuckle by the same people, despite very
compelling evidence that he promoted a hoax.

David Rudiak